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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #1 
Very interesting reading :
https://olive-drab.com/archive/JSCS_DA-PAM_27-50-299_16.txt
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #2 
A salient point:
"British examination of
its Malaya experience determined that, to a range of thirty yards
(27.4 meters), the probability of hitting a man-sized target with
a shotgun was superior to that of all other weapons. The probability
of hitting the intended target with an assault rifle was
one in eleven. It was one in eight with a submachine gun firing
a five-round burst. Shotguns had a hit probability ratio twice as
good as rifles."
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #3 
And:
"Shotgun buckshot also diminish risk of injury from
projectile over-penetration (through walls or doors) to civilians
who are not taking a direct part in the hostilities or to friendly
force combatants during military operations in urban terrain."
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David Armstrong

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Reply with quote  #4 
I remember reading a book several years back that looked at the British research you mention.  It was pretty interesting as to how they determined hit probability  and such, but the conclusion at the time was that for short range combat the shotgun was hands-down the most effective firearm available to the troops at that time.  I'd be interested to see how those findings compared to today with the rise of the red dot sights and such.
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks David. Yes, the use of a red dot, or a laser for that matter, on a shotgun would only improve the scores. I would like to see that too. This article by Greg Ellifritz supports the military research and is newer, though not new enough to include red dots, just the good ole bead sight:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/shotguns-for-home-protection

Notice the incredible 81% one shot stop rate. And, the equally amazing 60% hit rate. Again, this is with likely low level trained police officers, using bead sighted 870’s and Winchester pumps. Also notice they never hit an innocent bystander in over 20 years of hiding out in public stores and shooting a lot of bad guys.

I’ve read this book too BTW, Holloway's Raiders. It’s a great book, and a tribute to the shotgun versus all those, "little pea shooters".... 😜👍 Contrast that with with a recent stat from New York where hit rates were 43% from 0 to 6 feet. Not yards, feet. Now things were likely a struggle at that range, and already gone to the worms, but that means the officers missed 6 out of 10 shots. At that range a shotgun probably wouldn’t fare any better, and perhaps worse. This tells me to have a good alarm system and surveillance around your house to mitigate surprise...
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DWilson

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Reply with quote  #6 
VERY interesting reading, thanks for posting that.    22528374_1318019858327881_8004232203331001321_n.jpg 
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vl5150

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Posts: 112
Reply with quote  #7 
So many people like to use AR's for home defense and worse yet, the AR pistol.  I hang out in the gunshop and ask people so I hear this a lot. Novice shooters don't think about over penetration and the shock of being deaf and blind after the first shot.  Not to mention the ineffectiveness of a 55 grain projectile to do damage with no velocity.  My buddy was knocking down an house and I brought my AK and AR and shot the hell out of it first as a test. The house lost. At least with the SG, you can adjust your load and with the first hit probability you got a good chance of not killing someone else in the house.
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David Armstrong

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Reply with quote  #8 
In fairness, I would point out that is also true for the AR.  Yes, some of the AR rounds tend to zip right through typical house walls and such.  But there are also a number of rounds that tend to not penetrate to any major degree when hitting the same walls.  As with so many things in life, proper selection of your tool (in this case the bullet design) is the key to success.
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