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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #1 
Remington 11/87

Hello, relatively new member here to show all of you my current rendition of my Remington 11/87, subject to change without notice. I bought this in 1988 or 89 with the "Special Purpose" finish and 26", vent rib barrel, shown in the picture. Also, the wood is not as dark as the picture makes it appear. Special thanks to JD for lots of help and advice on this build so far.

The barrel:
Should have bought it from JD, but I was ignorant of his competitive pricing at the time. It’s just the typical Remington Police 18.5”, Improved Cylinder choked barrel. It arrived very dirty, which I assume is typical. It shoots to point of aim and patterns very well, especially the reduced recoil 00 buck. Unfortunately, this semi-auto hasn’t consistently thrown those RR empty hulls all the way out. 😡 Perhaps a polishing of the breech will help??? 🤔 If not, I see good results with Hornady Critical Defense 00 buck.

The Carrier:
With JD's valuable assistance, I installed the Police Style extended carrier release. I like this much better than the smaller stock version. It’s much easier to find without fumbling. I’ll be using dummy rounds to get a good, repeatable technique with this bolt release. As to the alternative style that is much larger and hangs down, I think that is better suited to competition than combat. I don’t like things that hang down and snag on other things while I’m fumbling around in the dark. I also replaced the old carrier latch spring.

The Follower:
I went a little off the reservation nutcase 🤪 regarding selection of a follower to replace the OEM black follower. I purchased the Nordic, GG&G, Remington Police hi-viz, before settling on the SBE that I purchased through JD. I put the Nordic in my Wingmaster. The face of the Nordic feels too much like a shotgun shell. The others have a definite, "this isn’t a shotgun shell" feel to them. I like the ones with a bump better than those with a hole, like the SBE has. Their weights are as follows in grams:
Stock black with a bump (on my 11/87); 2.26 grams.
Stock black flat face (on my 870); 3.62 grams.
Remington Police hi-viz; 3.22 grams.
SBE; 8.72 grams.
Nordic; 8.78 grams.
GG&G (with detent channels); 15.02 grams.
GG&G (without channels); 15.72 grams.
And for fun (since drilling out the magazine detents and thus getting rid of this) the Remington magazine cap retainer weighed; 7.0 grams.
Again, I’m using the SBE Sport/Tac follower with the detent grooves.

The Mag Spring:
I replaced both old, stock mag springs (11/87 and 870) with the "Police Long" springs through JD. They both allow for full loading of 4 rounds in the stock magazines. I’ve test fired the 11/87 with this spring and so far, so good.

The Safety:
I replaced the stock safety with the oversized tactical safety. This has the flat, knurled face on it, not the big, bulbous ball. It has a larger diameter that makes it easier to disengage when placing the trigger finger into the trigger guard. It works demonstrably better than stock at the range in relaxed mode. Will test it out under more stressful, timed conditions in drills both at home and at the range.

The Charging Handle:
I went a little crazy on this too, I’m embarrassed to admit. I bought both the Nordic and the Choate. I haven’t even taken the Nordic out of its bag yet. That thing is huge. I’ve been running the Choate and really like it. It’s does stick up. But that allows charging from over the top of the receiver (as long as you don’t have anything on the top of the receiver like sights or even a Picatinny rail). I don’t. Mine is bare. I can easily charge with either hand, any direction. I can karate chop it, pull it, push it, whatever I want. This is important for someone like myself, that stores his shotgun in "Cruiser Ready" condition. You all probably know what that means, but just in case, it’s magazine full, chamber empty, hammer down, safety on. Thus, you have to charge the first round into the chamber, which cocks the hammer. Then, you disengage the safety to fire. You can also add another round to the magazine if you have time.

Next, what I don’t have installed:

Extended Magazine Tube:
This is the most obvious. Keep in mind, the following is just my opinion based on my circumstances. Your mileage may vary.
I live in a 1250, or so, square foot house in a quiet neighborhood in San Diego. The neighboring houses are all very similar. Crime rates are low, police response times fairly quick. I do not anticipate an extended gunfight for the following reasons:
        1.         Ballistics: The shotgun expels 8-9 buckshot projectiles, approximately 33 caliber and 60 grains in weight, at around 12-1300 FPS, per trigger pull. That’s like firing 8 or 9 .32 ACP Cor Bon JHP's from an 18 inch barrel, with one shot:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/32auto.html

If I have the stock 5 rounds of 8 pellet 00 buck on board, I have the equivalent of 40 rounds of potential 1300 FPS projectiles whizzing around the inside of my house at any one time. Personally, that seems like enough. Everyone has their mental home defense scenario they play in their head, myself included, and none of us, myself included, has a clue how it would actually go down. But we do have:
        2.         History:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

Most gunfights, even with the lowly handgun rounds, stop after one or two shots. This is mainly due to "psychological stops". Criminals want easy victims, not gunfights. But if a "physical stop" seems necessary, the shotgun reigns supreme. Shotgun wounds typically stop the most drug infused assailants with one well placed shot. The accent is on "well placed". Also from Greg Ellifritz is a book he recommends here that I have read and recommend as well, Holloway’s Raiders:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/shotguns-for-home-protection

Notice the part about Holloway's men having an 81% one shot stop rate. And that with zero collateral damage. Shotgun baby.

        3.         Handling: You are probably stronger than me. Semi-auto shotguns are heavy enough for this 66 year old. Heck, so are pumps. At this time, I’m running drills to see how fast I can pick up the gun, rack a round, aim, shoot and hit (hopefully a moving target) at 10 yards. I may put a one or two round Wilson Combat extension on it in the future, but for now, I’m liking the easier and faster handling without. Shotgun Guru Rob Haught somewhat agrees. Wilson Combat's Rob Haught Special Shotgun sports a 1 round extension. It also has a 4, not 6, round shell carrier:
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/rob-haught-special-shotgun/

Listen to this podcast to hear his reasons why he designed this shotgun so:

http://ballisticradio.com/2018/08/25/gospel-of-the-gauge-podcast-season-6-ballistic-radio-episode-266-july-30th-2018/

        4.         Ease of swapping barrels and cleaning: I still plan to use the 26” barrel for trap and skeet. Leaving the detents in the mag tube and the mag spring retainer means I don’t have the spring popping out every time I switch barrels or break it down for cleaning. That’s a plus to me. And I don’t have to alter the gun.
        5.         No issues with the spring hanging up: The Wilson extension seems to negate this, but with no interface between mag tube and extension at all, I think is even better, as in, more reliable.

Which brings us to:

Shell Carrier:

I left this off for the same reasons above. I’ve ordered a cheap, 5 round buttstock carrier to experiment with. I’m also still considering where I’m going to store at least the one round left out of the Cruiser Ready configuration. One thing at a time. Next up is to train with someone that knows shotguns, and shares my ideas on fast accurate shots on moving targets with little emphasis on "keeping the shotgun fed". I may be wrong, but I don’t anticipate a protracted gunfight in my little house.

And lastly, lack of the "Tacticool Look"...

Especially living in Commiefornia, if I have the bad fortune to be forced into taking another human life in order to save mine or a loved one's, I want the most sleeper looking weapon on the evidence table for the jury of my peers to gaze at. The wood furniture on this shotgun helps in that regard.

Thanks everyone...

Attached Images
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vl5150

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Posts: 112
Reply with quote  #2 
I love the write-up and the thought that went into this build.  The passion you have for this is apparent and on the pics- they look great.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the wood stock and I prefer them too so you're on the right track.  

The only bad thing on your post is to hear you live in Cali-Feinstein:-)
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FlyBoyTim

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Posts: 322
Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you. And someone has to keep the flame of freedom burning in Commiefornia. 😜👍
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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #4 
When speaking with you I picked up on the fact we share the believe that a fighting shotgun should be kept as basic as possible to meet the mission so that Mr. Murphy has less to play his silly games with.

You did it perfectly and I add "Deadly".  That is deadly for any fool who threatens you our yours.

Thanks for the great write up it was a good read with a happy ending.

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JD McGuire, Owner
AI&P Tactical, LLC
http://www.aiptactical.com
http://www.tacticalgunslings.com
Remington LE Armorer
Mossberg LE Armorer
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jhartmac

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Reply with quote  #5 
I also like the color of the wood, I too replaced my synthetic stock with a prem wood set....
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vl5150

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Posts: 112
Reply with quote  #6 
On the buttstock carrier, I like those as well.  Cheap, effective and KISS. I poke a hole and use the sling swivel stud to keep in in place.
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vl5150

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Reply with quote  #7 
One more thing....Any plans to mount a weapon light?
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Francis Lynch

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Reply with quote  #8 
Informative article. thank you for the time and effort in putting this together FlyBoyTim.
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FlyBoyTim

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Posts: 322
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by combatshotgun
When speaking with you I picked up on the fact we share the believe that a fighting shotgun should be kept as basic as possible to meet the mission so that Mr. Murphy has less to play his silly games with.

You did it perfectly and I add "Deadly".  That is deadly for any fool who threatens you our yours.

Thanks for the great write up it was a good read with a happy ending.


Thanks again to you JD, it’s been a lot of educational fun working with you on this. There will be more.
Reading some of your old forum posts I’ve found we really do see eye to eye on this whole home defense subject. 👁 to 👁 🤓
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vl5150
One more thing....Any plans to mount a weapon light?


First a story 5150... A few years back we had a major electrical outage affecting most of San Diego and environs. Media fear mongering worried all hell would break loose. Turns out neighbors had impromptu BBQ's in their front yards and actually met one another. Guitar playing and sing alongs occurred. Nothing out of the ordinary happened violence wise. It was more kumbaya than kill zone. After power restoration we went back to our isolation and TV sets. 😪 Nonetheless, bad things can happen.

My neighborhood has street lights that really light up the inside of my house at night. Our bedroom requires light blocking drapes on the street side. Also, our neighbors seem to like leaving their interior lights on all night. So barring a full blackout, the house is well lit enough to identify any potential target. It’s just myself and my girlfriend at home normally. That said, out of ordinary things can require a light source to identify, aim at, and hopefully dissuade a potential threat.

The lack of a rail and the wood furniture on my 11/87 requires either a magazine tube add on type rail, or a slip on holder, or wrist style light like JD sells. I’ve ordered the slip on holder pictured to try out with my Surefire light in one of the shell holders. I don’t like the mag tube add on because they seem to stick out pretty far. I’m not interested in altering my forend stock either. That leaves the wrist light which I will probably get. If a power outage occurs tonight, there’s always electrical tape. 😜👍

I generally like the idea of a weapon mounted light, as long as it’s used by pointing the light at the floor or walls to bounce it in the direction of what you want lit. Once identified as a threat in that way of course, it would be aimed right at the threat.

That said, statistics on police use of weapon mounted lights, if I recall correctly, shows that they are almost never used. Perhaps JD knows more. Still, people continue to blast their family members, mistaken for a bad guy, in unlit rooms.

Attached Images
jpeg C42B5D26-ED86-48CB-95A8-5F4A8A7CDA58.jpeg (189.17 KB, 4 views)

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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Lynch
Informative article. thank you for the time and effort in putting this together FlyBoyTim.


Thanks Francis, and you’re welcome...
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David Armstrong

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Shell Carrier:

I left this off for the same reasons above. I’ve ordered a cheap, 5 round buttstock carrier to experiment with. I’m also still considering where I’m going to store at least the one round left out of the Cruiser Ready configuration.


Not sure if they still have it or not, but I got a little two-round plastic holder from Safariland that was designed to clip on your belt.  A little velcro dot on the carrier and a little velcro dot on the shotgun butt, and I had a quick grab device that stayed with the gun when in storage but came off easily and got out of the way, but still gave me a couple of extra rounds.
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #13 
That’s a great idea David. Was it this?
http://www.safariland.com/miscellaneous/model-080-12-shot-shell-holder-23153.html#q=Shell+holder&start=1
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FlyBoyTim

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Posts: 322
Reply with quote  #14 
Or this one:
http://www.safariland.com/products/holsters-and-gear/gear/pouches-cases-and-holders/shotgun-shell-holders/model-081-12-rivet-mount-shot-shell-holder-1116865.html#q=Shell+holder&start=1
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David Armstrong

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Reply with quote  #15 
That first one looks like it.  There are some other options out there along the same theme.  I liked that one because it was pretty slim and easy to get from the gun to the belt.  I just put a Velcro dot on the buttstock to hold it there, then as I grabbed the gun it was easy to pull the shellholder off and take it right to my belt.
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