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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #31 
Yep, my first trip to the factory I saw that book on the Instructors desk.  Then on the factory tour later that week I saw several on the work benches in the factory.  If the people that build these guns use it then it was good enough for me.   Ordered one from Brownells my first day home.  
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #32 
I remember you telling me that JD. That’s why now, I have a machine gun, Ho-Ho-Ho...

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RetDetDave

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Reply with quote  #33 
Wow! The re-builds here are getting better and better. Wonderful work in addition to the informative write up on your research and reasoning before and after each of your moves. Enjoyed reading and thanks. I too of am the firm belief of the KISS renditions on shotguns especially HD. I don’t have a firm opinion on lights added to any weapon. Almost 30 years in a police car and they weren’t even thought of yet (for the first 10-15 anyway) so my experience is nill. We used the “new” D-Cell Mag Lites in our weak hand, held high and away from our bodies for handgun. I don’t think anyone even thought of a need, let alone how to operate a light when using the SG’s.
Now long retired and also well into my 60’s i’m putting more thought into one. Will keep watching here for more thoughts and ideas.
Maybe that wrist light that JD has? Just don’t want to keep whacking myself in the face while sleeping. 😵
Appreciate the work you put into this FBTim, thanks.

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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #34 
Thanks for the complimentary words David F. And thanks for your 30 years service. 
The Beartooth 2 shell side shell holder works OK for my small Surefire light. That flashlight is just a tad larger in diameter than a 12 gauge shell. It just wobbles a little and while that probably won't diminish it's utility as a weapon mounted light, it's distracting. Jury is still out on the weapon mounted light and even if it's necessary in my situation.

Next up is a range report, actually 2 trips to the range to report good news, bad news and no news. First up, no news:

I'm still testing the whole speed of the first shot, 4 rounds in the gun versus 4 rounds in the gun and 7 rounds on the gun. Preliminary tests seem to favor a lighter gun is faster on the draw... [idea] Gosh, who'da thunk???? Do I really need to test this? Yes, so I'm ordering some dummy rounds to try out at home in the HD scene and time them all accordingly. May ask the girlfriend to time me. She'll make fun of me. [bawl] My testing was interrupted at the range by the bad news:

I can't really operate the 11/87 out of "cruiser ready" like you can a pump gun or some other autos, like the Mossberg 930, as an example. "Cruiser ready" is IMHO the safest way to store a shotgun, and if it's even important, it takes the tension off the hammer spring too. Here's what happens when you rack the bolt on an 11/87 from cruiser ready. The first round is loosed from the magazine and laid upon the carrier, the hammer is cocked, but the bolt stays locked back as if you were empty. I'm not sure why. I've been studying my Kuhnhausen book for the answer, but man, that book is not an easy read. I'm sure JD knows why, but I'm stubbornly trying to find out on my own. Next, you have to release the bolt with the carrier/bolt release to chamber that first round. So, while testing myself for times with and without extra shells strapped to the gun, I was distracted by the extra step of hitting the release. Now that I know the extra step is necessary, I'll train for it. I could even add that lost 5th round perhaps. 

And the good news is:

Just like the other 11/87 build recently posted by JD, my gun will also fire, full power loads at least, without a solid hold on the gun. I had to do this by holding the gun out in front of my shoulder, not touching it, since I shoot indoors under the watchful eye of the range police, and can't shoot from the hip or such. Nonetheless, it fired every time. [biggrin] Didn't even hurt my shoulder since I held it pretty far out. To me, a semi-auto shotgun is like a pump that has the pumping done for you. With the forend off, you can "pump" the action bar sleeve like you can the forend of a pump gun. The expanding gases are syphoned off the inside of the barrel to do this for you. And, the resistance of the action spring should be enough to push back enough to allow for full extracting of the spent round and chambering of the next round. At least, that's my theory. 

Anyhow, more range reports to come... Hopefully a shotgun class or two too. 
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #35 
Late range report:
Sorry, I shot these months ago. Anyway, these are 7” paper plates placed at the listed yardage. This is at an indoor range with electronic target devices, so they are pretty accurate as to distance away from the shooter. This was to pattern my 11/87 with a new 18.5” barrel. I shot targets at 3, 5, 7, and 10 yards. Ammo used was some old, full power, Federal 00 buck I had laying around. For the 10 yard targets I added some Federal low recoil rounds I bought at the range that day to try out.

As you can see, the low recoil, or RR (Reduced Recoil) rounds were actually the most accurate. However, none of them would cycle the 11/87. Only the old Federal and the Hornady CD (Critical Defense), would cycle the Remington semi. The Hornady CD is listed at 1600 FPS, although I doubt it would register that fast if tested. Nonetheless, it cycled every time, and would be my choice for home defense. The old Federal was super reliable, but you can see how much it opened up, even at short, home defense ranges. Some like that, some don’t.

Here’s the pictures grouped by range:

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jpeg 29595F7F-5AB9-4F03-B4C0-514693692735.jpeg (638.66 KB, 7 views)

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Germansheperd

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Reply with quote  #36 
That reduced recoil does a nice job. Shotgun shell technology has come along nicely!
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #37 
It sure has... 👍
Nothing against 20 gauge, but the argument to use that caliber for reducing felt recoil has been negated, at least for pump guns. And you retain the advantages of 12 gauge.
Also, if dead was 100%, full power 00 buck makes you 200% dead, while low recoil stuff makes you 150% dead. You’re still dead. Or stopped, I should say. 😇
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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #38 
Being the 20 gauge 870 is one pound lighter and weight equates to felt recoil shooting a like load in the 20 can have the same felt recoil.  Also, with 13" LOP stock the recoil pad is smaller and that contributes to more felt recoil over a larger pad.
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #39 
“Being the 20 gauge 870 is one pound lighter and weight equates to felt recoil shooting a like load in the 20 can have the same felt recoil. Also, with 13" LOP stock the recoil pad is smaller and that contributes to more felt recoil over a larger pad.”

More reasons to go with 12... 👍
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #40 
I smoothed out the chamber of my 18.5” 11/87 barrel using 000 steel wool wrapped around a 12 gauge bore brush, along with some J-B bore paste, attached to a hand drill. The heretofore “Reduced Recoil” Hornady 00 buck that would fail to fully eject every single time went through 5 rounds with no problems. That’s not a definitive test, but it is encouraging. A more extensive test is in the future.

I may also buy one of the hones from Brownell for further smoothing of the chamber. It’s something to consider with the 1100 or 11/87 since they really like to eject from a solid thump from the gas system. I figure a smoother chamber will hold onto the spent round with less force and thus help with its own extraction.

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jpeg EC128323-B37E-4032-8C7C-CF96F61E2A88.jpeg (312.52 KB, 12 views)

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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #41 
Keeping the chamber dry and never using any cleaning chemicals or oil in it is important.  That stuff cooks off in the pores and leads to sticky extraction.  I only use the steel wool to clean my barrels and they are always kept dry.   If one is to be put away for long term storage then a light coat of oil is fine but use the steel wool to get it out of there once the gun is put back in service.
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1187smoothbore.

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Reply with quote  #42 
Nice pictures,,I have the eotech for night and the homemade charging handle, I don't believe JD has seen one of my custom charging handles.
Sorry gotta go the anti firearms liberal is home,,,,,,,lol

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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #43 
Want to see that handle.  Post a picture.   You have to share here as we mostly old pathetic dinosaurs who have to see change and be dragged kicking and screaming into a smarter better idea for our own good.  Except David, he keeps the best of the old and takes advantage of the best of the New.   But me, I walk around in dinosaur shit and can't even smell it.   But I am known to grab a good product when I see it. 
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FlyBoyTim

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Reply with quote  #44 
Lest you think I’ve neglected my Remington 11-87 Special Purpose just because I’ve purchased a Beretta 1301 Tactical, continue reading.

I have it completely, except for the trigger group, torn down. I am paying particular attention to an abused action spring tube. In my ignorance long ago, I over lubricated that area. The oil went down the tube. Now it’s just a mess. I’ve been cleaning it with all kinds of stuff to rub Hoppe’s #9 on the inside walls to get rid of this gunk. The picture is of a 50 cal bronze bristle brush. Never mind the avocados. Hey, I live in San Diego. I’m still getting nasty looking swabs after a lot of elbow grease. Next up is a 0000 steel wool wrap on a 410 gauge bristle brush and a drill. I’ve also been using the drill with the 50 cal brush. My goal is to get the inside of that tube clean and smooth. This I think is very helpful in making the 11-87 run at its peak. JD has mailed out a new action spring. I will install that and use the old one as a spare. He says don’t lube the inside of the tube with grease or oil or anything, but I’m planning on spraying some Hornady One Shot dry lube inside. That stuff is amazing and dries almost instantly. Let’s see if JD is listening. 👂

In addition, I will take the action spring follower and try to smooth the outside of it where it rubs on the tube. You can see a shining section where it has “married” itself to the inside of the tube. Perhaps a little steel wool will smooth it a bit more. 🤔 Every little bit helps. Again, the goal is to get the smoothest, most reliable 11-87 I can.

I’ve also got a Wilson Combat 2 shot extension, a better SBE follower, a new action link, and a sling coming from JD. The sling will just be for any classes I may take with it in the future.

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jpeg 739DE23B-E270-4226-8BCD-A2F5B5FF948E.jpeg (491.67 KB, 28 views)

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combatshotgun

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Reply with quote  #45 
I guess a dry lube is OK.  Whomever told you to put grease in their needs their license to give advise revoked.   I heard the Dry repeatedly from the Senior Instructors at the factory.   However, there were no really any dry lube products out there back in those days.   
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